An interview with Jetsün Khandro Rinopoche

Deutsche Welle: The world seems to be getting out of control. Are we living in an age in which only our own merits matter?

KHANDRO RINPOCHE: I think ego and self-absorption has always been there. But indeed, what we do experience, particularly in this century, is even more exaggerated than ever before. And I think one of the influences why there seems to be this extraordinary self-absorption and the exaggerated ego, is the society which has changed from being a community to an individualistic society - where the orientation of lifestyle is such that you just keep your agendas and ambitions and your own self as the most important of all. Then, slowly, the psychological effect on human beings is that you put the self as the epicenter of all existence, of everything.

Why is that and what are the consequences?

KHANDRO RINPOCHE: Everything has become very mechanical. Someone tells you how your life should be. And everyone imitates one another, rather than there being a sense of awareness, of humaneness, of human true potentials. And when we do not discover that inner potential, the abilities within our own selves, and we go more by imitation or being led by what are the social norms or whatever is much more prevalent and fashionable and popular, I think there is a tendency to move away from who you really are.

But why shouldn’t we want the things that others also have?

KHANDRO RINPOCHE: There are constructive desires and destructive desires. Constructive desire is much more an aspiration: to want something. If it is constructive, we are serving for the others. That is probably what the scientists would say what creates evolution – something is born out of it, even for the inventions, and the development and the progress. It is born out of a desire to succeed or to fulfill some kind of an idea that you might have.

But then destructive desires, where the supremeness of positing the self and the interest of the self supersedes all awareness of how others might be impacted by that – let’s look at warfare or the senseless violence and hatred and suspicion that is so strong in our world today. That is destructive desire. That is where you want your own and yourself to be the only one happy or the only one successful.

The destructive variant is quite widespread…

KHANDRO RINPOCHE: That comes back to greed and ignorance: Short term individual gain. There’s an example: Sometimes in India you find people who throw garbage outside their walls. The streets may be lined with garbage and waste, but as soon as you open their gate, you’ll find their lawns are impeccably neat, and tidy and beautiful gardens and nicely cleaned white washed houses are there. But then, they will step out of their own gates and then they won’t think twice before spitting or throwing something, or making dirty the external environment. So this is kind of the mentality that many of us have. So long as I am okay, I am comfortable and my own area is something that is protected – that sense of self-absorption distances ourselves from a global responsibility, of being able to see how everything I do has an impact to the other people and to the environment as well. So, it is a very linear selfish perspective, which is very unfortunate. And that’s probably the reason why we are facing so many difficulties.

Many are simply of the opinion that individuals cannot change anything anyway…

KHANDRO RINPOCHE: There are many people who are somewhat conscious of it, but then this is the helplessness. You know “what can I do” and not seeing that individual responsibility can actually be very, very helpful. Everyone is thinking so much of the linear, the individual. This is the individualistic society that we were talking about.

That sense of community, a sense of creating the globe, creating the community, creating the society, “I am part of the whole” - that feeling is definitely neglected these days.

How do you think we could combat this indifference?

KHANDRO RINPOCHE: The Buddhist teachings talk about appreciating interdependency, developing a sense of awareness, sense of mindfulness that allows your participation to make everything beautiful. And if not beautiful, then at least not ugly, not harmful.

That requires a lot of introspection. But on the other hand, if that introspection is interrupted because of the immense business of the external world – yes, it does make being mindful much more difficult.

You have obtained a human life with such great potential and, most importantly, you have the freedom to make your own choices. So, if you out of that had the understanding of interdependency, then the choices that you would make in life could be constructive, that would bring happiness to yourself and to the others.

How has materialism been able to spread like this?

KHANDRO RINPOCHE: Wherever we find materialism and the sense of unfeeling, uncaring attitude being very prevalent, we do see that the education system is a very big part of it. The schools and the colleges and the imparting of the educations influence the mind. So, when you begin to impart education in such a way that success is the only way you can be happy or acquisition is the only way you can be successful, and go-getters at any cost you have to succeed -when that language is so prominent, it is very hard for human beings to become aware of something much more deeper in terms of contentment and satisfaction, of simplicity and humility. So, I really think education, whether it’s not limited to spiritual education, but just human education is very important.

Could schools even do that?

KHANDRO RINPOCHE: There is no one single syllabus on compassion. But I think from a very young age within the school systems and even within the family systems, if a sense of appreciating the suffering of the others and whatever you want your own happiness, your own suffering, using that as the basic self reflection that the others have the same kind of feeling, of want of happiness, not wanting of suffering – I think has to be taught by books, by speaking about it and most importantly by examples, living examples. Parents have to be the examples of that love and compassion. Teachers, of course, have to also be living examples of that. And I think that is not a semester’s teaching but it’s a whole culture that has to be there at every time.

And how could one convey these values to children?

KHANDRO RINPOCHE: One of the very helpful things is to take children outside of your own world - and to show them how other people live. To give them an experience of different conditions where life may not be as you are living. That access and visibleness is very important. Unfortunately, wherever you find consumerism very strong, there is the tendency to hide everything.

I come from India – and I think India is a wonderful place, because we haven’t really developed good packaging. So every aspect of pain, suffering or ugliness is very apparent – it’s not hidden away. So, when that kind of accessibility is there, children grow up knowing that there are various ways of living life; that you are maybe very fortunate where others are not as fortunate - and a sympathetic attitude develops with that. It is unfortunate that in many of the well-developed worlds, young people don’t have that because wherever you look you almost see everyone with having something. You don’t see people who do not have even the very basic essentials of let’s say even, clean drinking water. So, wherever and whenever parents have the possibility of exposing children to all different ways of living life that is, I think, a very useful education.

But aren’t we more inclined to despair in view of our global problems?

KHANDRO RINPOCHE: Actually, there’s a lot of hope. There’s no reason to be so pessimistic. For something genuinely good to arise, there has to come a saturation point. I’m quite optimistic, because I really think that when there is an extremeness of all this materialism happening that there is a lot of hope that from that there will come a saturation which will lead a person to knowing this doesn’t work. And perhaps, that will be the first gate that opens them up to much more deeper reflection, into finding answers not on the external, but finding much more answers within one’s own self.