WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.290 --> 00:00:02.270 "This piece of ancient plant matter 2 00:00:02.270 --> 00:00:03.760 kick-started an era of us 3 00:00:03.760 --> 00:00:06.640 messing majorly with our planet." 4 00:00:07.439 --> 00:00:08.439 "Of course, 5 00:00:08.439 --> 00:00:09.670 the most logical way of stopping that 6 00:00:09.670 --> 00:00:12.560 is burning less of this and other fossil fuels." 7 00:00:12.840 --> 00:00:16.250 But that's not happening nearly fast enough. 8 00:00:16.250 --> 00:00:18.820 "Enter: The carbon tax." 9 00:00:18.820 --> 00:00:21.230 An alluringly simple idea: 10 00:00:21.230 --> 00:00:22.890 Just put a price tag on carbon emissions 11 00:00:22.890 --> 00:00:24.480 that are destroying our planet. 12 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:26.619 The more you pollute, the more you pay. 13 00:00:26.619 --> 00:00:29.170 Leading – in theory – to less pollution. 14 00:00:29.170 --> 00:00:32.000 And making cleaner alternatives more appealing. 15 00:00:32.529 --> 00:00:33.940 Almost 30 countries worldwide 16 00:00:33.940 --> 00:00:35.860 have a form of it. 17 00:00:35.860 --> 00:00:38.480 "So can a carbon tax stop us from polluting?" 18 00:00:43.470 --> 00:00:44.789 But first things first. 19 00:00:44.789 --> 00:00:46.960 Why are we focusing on carbon? 20 00:00:47.680 --> 00:00:50.280 "That's because as soon as we burn this, 21 00:00:50.710 --> 00:00:52.520 it becomes the biggest troublemaker." 22 00:00:53.260 --> 00:00:54.360 When you burn coal, 23 00:00:54.360 --> 00:00:56.720 it emits vast amounts of CO2. 24 00:00:56.720 --> 00:00:59.290 The same goes for oil and gas. 25 00:00:59.290 --> 00:01:00.630 Carbon emissions from fossil fuels 26 00:01:00.630 --> 00:01:02.500 are by far the biggest pollutant 27 00:01:02.500 --> 00:01:04.720 that's responsible for climate change. 28 00:01:05.049 --> 00:01:06.680 This is regular air. 29 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:07.909 And this is what we're doing 30 00:01:07.909 --> 00:01:10.549 to our atmosphere right now. 31 00:01:10.549 --> 00:01:12.970 And once we turn on our "sun" - 32 00:01:12.970 --> 00:01:15.280 this one starts heating up much quicker. 33 00:01:17.067 --> 00:01:18.900 A little bit of carbon dioxide 34 00:01:18.900 --> 00:01:20.939 in the atmosphere is great. 35 00:01:20.939 --> 00:01:23.340 Because carbon dioxide is really, really good 36 00:01:23.340 --> 00:01:25.630 at absorbing and radiating the heat 37 00:01:25.630 --> 00:01:28.380 that gets reflected from the Earth's surface. 38 00:01:28.380 --> 00:01:31.729 It's what makes our planet warm enough to live on. 39 00:01:31.729 --> 00:01:33.729 "But we're taking it a little bit too far 40 00:01:33.729 --> 00:01:35.360 with all of this." 41 00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:37.939 We're blowing more of the stuff 42 00:01:37.939 --> 00:01:40.650 into the air almost every year. 43 00:01:40.650 --> 00:01:42.880 The only two dips you can see here? 44 00:01:42.880 --> 00:01:44.600 The 2009 financial crisis 45 00:01:44.600 --> 00:01:47.060 and the Covid-19 pandemic. 46 00:01:47.060 --> 00:01:48.399 Not exactly intentional. 47 00:01:48.399 --> 00:01:49.730 And pretty catastrophic. 48 00:01:50.200 --> 00:01:52.299 "But the carbon tax – ideally – 49 00:01:52.299 --> 00:01:53.240 would change that. 50 00:01:53.939 --> 00:01:54.939 Make things that pollute a lot 51 00:01:54.939 --> 00:01:56.070 more expensive, 52 00:01:56.070 --> 00:01:58.929 so that people will use or buy less of it. 53 00:01:59.300 --> 00:02:02.299 And in turn, this will make cleaner technologies cheaper 54 00:02:02.299 --> 00:02:03.899 and more attractive. 55 00:02:03.899 --> 00:02:04.899 It's so appealing 56 00:02:04.899 --> 00:02:07.560 because it seems so simple and logical." 57 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:11.560 "It drives the lowest cost ways of 58 00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:14.250 reducing emissions." 59 00:02:14.250 --> 00:02:17.010 Simon Tudiver works for the Canadian government, 60 00:02:17.010 --> 00:02:18.590 it has had a form of federal carbon tax 61 00:02:18.590 --> 00:02:19.590 since 2019. 62 00:02:20.490 --> 00:02:23.310 "And it just sort of sends a broad signal 63 00:02:23.310 --> 00:02:24.310 to the marketplace 64 00:02:24.310 --> 00:02:27.290 that pollution shouldn't be free. 65 00:02:27.290 --> 00:02:30.560 And then it kind of lets all of the actors 66 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:32.879 decide for themselves how best that works 67 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:35.160 in their businesses and in their lives." 68 00:02:36.210 --> 00:02:38.170 27 countries and many more regions 69 00:02:38.170 --> 00:02:40.240 and cities have a carbon tax. 70 00:02:40.810 --> 00:02:42.690 It all started – unsurprisingly – 71 00:02:42.690 --> 00:02:44.120 with the Scandinavians. 72 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:47.310 Finland, Norway and Sweden, as well as Poland, 73 00:02:47.310 --> 00:02:50.320 first introduced carbon taxes in the early 90s. 74 00:02:50.320 --> 00:02:51.480 Since then, 75 00:02:51.480 --> 00:02:53.379 many countries have joined the club. 76 00:02:53.379 --> 00:02:56.519 But the reality of a carbon tax is more complex 77 00:02:56.519 --> 00:02:58.590 than some economists might think. 78 00:02:58.590 --> 00:03:03.330 "There are many different ways to tax carbon emissions." 79 00:03:03.330 --> 00:03:05.060 You could tax the entire economy 80 00:03:05.060 --> 00:03:07.270 or just a specific sector. 81 00:03:07.270 --> 00:03:10.599 Some taxes only target companies of a certain size. 82 00:03:10.599 --> 00:03:12.530 A lot of the carbon taxes worldwide 83 00:03:12.530 --> 00:03:14.870 are taxes on fossil fuels. 84 00:03:14.870 --> 00:03:16.629 That means fossil fuel firms must pay 85 00:03:16.629 --> 00:03:19.230 for every liter or cubic meter of oil, 86 00:03:19.230 --> 00:03:21.650 gas and coal they extract. 87 00:03:21.650 --> 00:03:22.730 But in many cases, 88 00:03:22.730 --> 00:03:26.050 the additional cost is passed on to the consumer, 89 00:03:26.050 --> 00:03:28.360 incentivizing them to use less of it. 90 00:03:29.057 --> 00:03:30.370 "The next question is 91 00:03:30.370 --> 00:03:32.840 what to do with all the money you just collected?" 92 00:03:33.790 --> 00:03:35.769 One way is to reduce other taxes. 93 00:03:35.769 --> 00:03:37.069 "In Sweden, 94 00:03:37.069 --> 00:03:41.170 one has called this the green tax shift." 95 00:03:41.170 --> 00:03:42.409 This is Christian Thomann, 96 00:03:42.409 --> 00:03:44.709 he advised the Swedish government on tax policies 97 00:03:44.709 --> 00:03:46.280 for ten years. 98 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:50.689 "One used an increase in environmental taxation 99 00:03:50.689 --> 00:03:56.150 to reduce the taxes on labor. 100 00:03:56.150 --> 00:03:57.340 That would be considered 101 00:03:57.340 --> 00:04:00.000 to be a growth enhancing reform." 102 00:04:00.590 --> 00:04:02.840 Switzerland uses two thirds of its revenue 103 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:04.200 to reduce health insurance 104 00:04:04.200 --> 00:04:06.189 and social security payments, 105 00:04:06.189 --> 00:04:08.920 and invests the rest into low emission sectors. 106 00:04:09.510 --> 00:04:11.349 Canada takes it one step further. 107 00:04:11.349 --> 00:04:12.840 "The revenue we collect from 108 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:14.730 that federal fuel charge, 109 00:04:14.730 --> 00:04:16.790 the vast majority of that 110 00:04:16.790 --> 00:04:21.310 is returned directly to individuals and households 111 00:04:21.310 --> 00:04:23.080 through lump sum payments. 112 00:04:23.080 --> 00:04:24.940 And so it's really designed to help 113 00:04:24.940 --> 00:04:28.660 with the affordability of carbon pricing overall." 114 00:04:28.660 --> 00:04:30.210 "And that idea of redistribution 115 00:04:30.210 --> 00:04:32.919 doesn't have to stay within one country." 116 00:04:32.919 --> 00:04:34.320 If it were spread out globally, 117 00:04:34.320 --> 00:04:36.980 the richer nations could give the collected taxes 118 00:04:36.980 --> 00:04:38.789 to the countries of the Global South – 119 00:04:38.789 --> 00:04:41.370 which are much less responsible for climate change 120 00:04:41.370 --> 00:04:42.360 but are hit the hardest. 121 00:04:43.257 --> 00:04:45.600 A global carbon tax would make that possible. 122 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:48.250 A good idea in theory, but... 123 00:04:48.250 --> 00:04:51.410 "If you've heard anything about climate negotiations, 124 00:04:51.410 --> 00:04:52.960 you know that getting everybody 125 00:04:52.960 --> 00:04:54.840 to agree to a set tax rate 126 00:04:54.840 --> 00:04:56.660 is going to be really difficult. 127 00:04:56.660 --> 00:04:58.690 But there is another way of pricing carbon 128 00:04:58.690 --> 00:05:00.090 that needs to be mentioned – 129 00:05:00.090 --> 00:05:01.600 it's called emissions trading." 130 00:05:02.940 --> 00:05:05.699 This means putting a cap on the amount of CO2 131 00:05:05.699 --> 00:05:07.710 certain industries can emit. 132 00:05:07.710 --> 00:05:09.729 A company that exceeds that limit 133 00:05:09.729 --> 00:05:13.360 must buy extra allowances or will face penalties. 134 00:05:13.780 --> 00:05:15.320 If a company emits less, 135 00:05:15.320 --> 00:05:18.240 they can sell those allowances to other companies. 136 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:20.430 This is supposed to ensure that the entire industry 137 00:05:20.430 --> 00:05:23.200 stays within the designated limit. 138 00:05:24.070 --> 00:05:25.120 The EU, for example, 139 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:28.080 has a system like this in place. 140 00:05:28.080 --> 00:05:31.800 The same goes for China, Indonesia and Mexico. 141 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:32.800 Together, 142 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:34.590 carbon taxes and emissions trading systems 143 00:05:34.590 --> 00:05:36.389 already cover around a quarter 144 00:05:36.389 --> 00:05:38.650 of all carbon emissions worldwide. 145 00:05:38.650 --> 00:05:40.210 "So that's the theory. 146 00:05:40.210 --> 00:05:42.180 But do they work in practice? 147 00:05:42.180 --> 00:05:44.130 There are many, many studies out there 148 00:05:44.130 --> 00:05:46.740 that try to answer this question." 149 00:05:46.740 --> 00:05:49.020 Jessica Green looked at 37 of them 150 00:05:49.020 --> 00:05:50.900 for her own meta-study. 151 00:05:50.900 --> 00:05:56.319 "Carbon pricing is both emissions trading systems 152 00:05:56.319 --> 00:05:59.940 and carbon taxes are associated 153 00:05:59.940 --> 00:06:03.110 with small reductions in emission." 154 00:06:03.110 --> 00:06:05.720 Zero to two percent to be exact. 155 00:06:05.720 --> 00:06:08.680 Not a lot, but not nothing either. 156 00:06:09.539 --> 00:06:12.620 In single regions, it can be significantly more. 157 00:06:12.620 --> 00:06:14.330 Like in British Columbia, Canada. 158 00:06:14.330 --> 00:06:16.480 Where, according to this study, 159 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:20.400 emissions fell by 5 to 15 percent in seven years. 160 00:06:20.949 --> 00:06:24.169 The same goes if you look at single industries: 161 00:06:24.169 --> 00:06:26.199 This study estimated that the carbon tax 162 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:28.800 may have reduced UK power sector emissions 163 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:31.280 by up to 26 percent. 164 00:06:34.100 --> 00:06:35.991 "Whether a carbon tax works or not 165 00:06:35.991 --> 00:06:37.960 depends on how high it is – 166 00:06:37.960 --> 00:06:40.020 that means how much money you have to pay 167 00:06:40.020 --> 00:06:43.130 per ton of emitted carbon dioxide." 168 00:06:43.130 --> 00:06:44.850 A metric ton of CO2 is what 169 00:06:44.850 --> 00:06:46.870 a one-way flight from New York to Paris 170 00:06:46.870 --> 00:06:48.669 emits per passenger. 171 00:06:48.669 --> 00:06:49.669 Or the emissions produced 172 00:06:49.669 --> 00:06:53.039 driving some 4000 km with an average car. 173 00:06:53.039 --> 00:06:56.460 Or burning over 900 of these coal briquettes. 174 00:06:56.460 --> 00:07:00.479 Uruguay had the highest carbon tax rate in 2023, 175 00:07:00.479 --> 00:07:02.470 followed by many European countries. 176 00:07:02.470 --> 00:07:05.050 But the tax rate rapidly falls to less 177 00:07:05.050 --> 00:07:07.580 than 20 dollars for many nations. 178 00:07:07.580 --> 00:07:09.819 "Most carbon taxes are set up 179 00:07:09.819 --> 00:07:11.560 to become more expensive with time 180 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:14.000 to deter future investment. 181 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:15.000 Economists and policy makers 182 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:16.190 have fought for YEARS 183 00:07:16.190 --> 00:07:17.860 to find out how expensive 184 00:07:17.860 --> 00:07:20.419 a carbon tax has to be to work. 185 00:07:20.419 --> 00:07:22.190 But they agree on one thing: 186 00:07:22.190 --> 00:07:25.280 The prices right now are far too low." 187 00:07:25.840 --> 00:07:28.020 A carbon tax is thought to only take effect 188 00:07:28.020 --> 00:07:31.300 upwards of 60 to 100 euros per ton. 189 00:07:31.300 --> 00:07:32.300 Meaning right now, 190 00:07:32.300 --> 00:07:34.151 most countries are not taxing carbon enough 191 00:07:34.151 --> 00:07:35.092 at all. 192 00:07:35.362 --> 00:07:37.520 "Another worry about putting a price on carbon is 193 00:07:37.520 --> 00:07:39.110 that if one country decides 194 00:07:39.110 --> 00:07:40.900 to introduce a tax, 195 00:07:40.900 --> 00:07:42.710 the companies will just go abroad. 196 00:07:42.710 --> 00:07:44.020 One of the ways to prevent that 197 00:07:44.020 --> 00:07:45.600 is good old tariffs." 198 00:07:46.580 --> 00:07:48.169 That's what the EU is doing. 199 00:07:48.169 --> 00:07:50.050 If you want to import carbon-intensive goods 200 00:07:50.050 --> 00:07:52.039 like cement, iron and steel, 201 00:07:52.039 --> 00:07:53.560 or electricity for example, 202 00:07:53.560 --> 00:07:55.050 you need to pay a carbon tariff. 203 00:07:55.050 --> 00:07:56.770 There are also proposals 204 00:07:56.770 --> 00:07:58.880 to expand that idea further. 205 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:01.000 Countries that introduce a way 206 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:02.139 of pricing carbon – 207 00:08:02.139 --> 00:08:04.340 whether it's a tax or emissions trading – 208 00:08:04.340 --> 00:08:05.340 could form a group 209 00:08:05.340 --> 00:08:08.220 that then gets better trade conditions. 210 00:08:08.220 --> 00:08:09.810 These so-called "climate clubs" 211 00:08:09.810 --> 00:08:11.539 could incentivize other countries 212 00:08:11.539 --> 00:08:14.940 to join in and start putting a price on emissions. 213 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:17.940 "So basically there is an opening. 214 00:08:17.940 --> 00:08:22.690 So you would both offer the carrot and the stick." 215 00:08:22.690 --> 00:08:24.180 "Arguably the biggest hurdle though 216 00:08:24.180 --> 00:08:25.660 is political opposition. 217 00:08:25.660 --> 00:08:27.380 You're not going to win elections 218 00:08:27.380 --> 00:08:30.900 by raising or even introducing new taxes. 219 00:08:30.900 --> 00:08:31.900 Quite the opposite:" 220 00:08:32.040 --> 00:08:34.839 "The low prices that we see 221 00:08:34.839 --> 00:08:37.240 for both carbon taxes and ETSs 222 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:38.240 is a feature. 223 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:39.240 It's not a bug. 224 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:41.839 Politicians and policymakers are afraid 225 00:08:41.839 --> 00:08:44.250 to make carbon emissions more expensive 226 00:08:44.250 --> 00:08:45.920 because they will be punished at the polls." 227 00:08:46.690 --> 00:08:47.690 One way around that 228 00:08:47.690 --> 00:08:49.320 is to reduce other expenses, 229 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:51.280 like in Sweden or Switzerland. 230 00:08:51.709 --> 00:08:54.560 Another is tax rebates, like in Canada. 231 00:08:55.450 --> 00:08:57.180 "Setting the price of carbon low at first 232 00:08:57.180 --> 00:09:01.170 and then only gradually increasing it is also key." 233 00:09:01.170 --> 00:09:02.310 But even then, 234 00:09:02.310 --> 00:09:04.649 carbon taxes can be extremely contentious – 235 00:09:04.649 --> 00:09:06.880 as seen here in Canada. 236 00:09:08.980 --> 00:09:12.529 Even still, countries like Indonesia, Morocco and Senegal 237 00:09:12.529 --> 00:09:15.120 are planning or considering a carbon tax. 238 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:18.500 Brazil, Malaysia, Vietnam, Nigeria and others 239 00:09:18.500 --> 00:09:21.150 are doing the same with emissions trading systems. 240 00:09:21.150 --> 00:09:23.370 Overall, the share of emissions covered 241 00:09:23.370 --> 00:09:24.430 by carbon pricing 242 00:09:24.430 --> 00:09:26.579 has been rising steadily. 243 00:09:27.434 --> 00:09:30.019 "If you're talking to a developing country, 244 00:09:30.019 --> 00:09:32.570 maybe a national carbon tax 245 00:09:32.570 --> 00:09:35.050 will allow the country to develop. 246 00:09:35.050 --> 00:09:37.080 It's not as difficult to implement 247 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:39.519 as an emission trading system. 248 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:41.329 If you're talking about 249 00:09:41.329 --> 00:09:42.940 more developed countries. 250 00:09:42.940 --> 00:09:47.450 I would say that there, emission trading system 251 00:09:47.450 --> 00:09:49.773 might be more appealing." 252 00:09:50.740 --> 00:09:52.959 The question is whether enacting a carbon tax 253 00:09:52.959 --> 00:09:54.760 or setting up a trading system 254 00:09:54.760 --> 00:09:56.310 is worth the political fight 255 00:09:56.310 --> 00:09:59.210 and the bureaucratic effort that comes with it. 256 00:09:59.210 --> 00:10:01.190 That may depend a lot on the country. 257 00:10:01.190 --> 00:10:02.440 And opinions are split on this. 258 00:10:03.140 --> 00:10:04.640 "Sometimes those political 259 00:10:04.640 --> 00:10:05.769 and communications challenges 260 00:10:05.769 --> 00:10:10.000 can seem overwhelming. 261 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:13.550 But I think, in the Canadian context, 262 00:10:13.550 --> 00:10:15.420 we can show that we've been able 263 00:10:15.420 --> 00:10:18.750 to implement an effective, 264 00:10:18.750 --> 00:10:19.800 functioning system." 265 00:10:19.800 --> 00:10:21.810 "I think if we're going to dedicate 266 00:10:21.810 --> 00:10:23.300 time and resources 267 00:10:23.300 --> 00:10:24.450 to fighting the climate crisis, 268 00:10:24.450 --> 00:10:26.209 then we need to do it in ways 269 00:10:26.209 --> 00:10:28.170 that are direct government interventions 270 00:10:28.170 --> 00:10:30.900 through things like technology standards, 271 00:10:30.900 --> 00:10:32.460 subsidies, incentives, 272 00:10:32.460 --> 00:10:34.360 the types of green industrial policy 273 00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:36.080 that we're increasingly seeing in Europe." 274 00:10:36.972 --> 00:10:39.340 If, after considering all of the above, 275 00:10:39.340 --> 00:10:40.860 a country still does decide 276 00:10:40.860 --> 00:10:42.180 to go with a carbon tax, 277 00:10:42.180 --> 00:10:45.370 there are a few things to consider: 278 00:10:45.370 --> 00:10:46.370 Overall carbon tax rates 279 00:10:46.370 --> 00:10:49.330 need to be set higher than they are right now. 280 00:10:49.330 --> 00:10:51.300 Lower-income households must be protected 281 00:10:51.300 --> 00:10:53.150 from the knock-on effects. 282 00:10:53.150 --> 00:10:54.150 You need to find a way 283 00:10:54.150 --> 00:10:55.583 to make it appealing to citizens - 284 00:10:55.583 --> 00:10:58.128 through rebates or tax breaks elsewhere. 285 00:10:58.510 --> 00:11:00.080 Industries that are hard to move abroad 286 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:01.300 and are not that exposed 287 00:11:01.300 --> 00:11:02.620 to international competition – 288 00:11:02.620 --> 00:11:04.440 like transportation for example – 289 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:06.440 are easier to target first. 290 00:11:06.829 --> 00:11:08.150 A carbon tax is by far 291 00:11:08.150 --> 00:11:10.810 not as simple and effective as it sounds at first 292 00:11:10.810 --> 00:11:12.960 and it can be more trouble than it's worth. 293 00:11:13.490 --> 00:11:15.459 It alone won't solve the problem. 294 00:11:15.459 --> 00:11:16.940 But putting a price on pollution 295 00:11:16.940 --> 00:11:19.360 is a step in the right direction. 296 00:11:20.760 --> 00:11:22.520 "Does your country have a carbon tax? 297 00:11:22.520 --> 00:11:23.530 Please let us know in the comments 298 00:11:23.530 --> 00:11:24.530 and subscribe, 299 00:11:24.530 --> 00:11:25.610 we post videos like this 300 00:11:25.610 --> 00:11:26.179 every Friday."